How can businesses do the right thing? What does that even mean and why does or should it matter? What is Business Ethics? Business ethics used to be a case of dealing with things like bribery and fraud, which companies tried to — and often did — manage with rules and processes. But nowadays, in a world where every employee and consumer has the ability to go viral on social media, it’s a much harder dynamic to manage. Businesses are under increasing scrutiny, not just for their business practices and supply chains but also for their position on issues such as racial injustice and quality. The idea that they’re simply there to maximise shareholder value, while not breaking the law is no longer a tenable approach. Meet Alison Taylor My guest on this episode is Alison Taylor. She’s a friend of the show — this is her third appearance (links to the previous two below). Alison is a Clinical Associate Professor at NYU-Stern School of Business and Executive Director of Ethical Systems. She has spent the past two decades consulting with multinational companies on risk, anti-corruption, sustainability, human rights, culture and behaviour, stakeholder engagement, ESG, and ethics and compliance. She is also the author of a brand new book out this week called ‘Higher Ground: How Business Can Do The Right Thing In A Turbulent World’. What We Discuss In our discussion, we explore: - what inspired Alison to write the book; - how she went about it; - the parallels between corporate and personal decision-making; - what she learned in writing it; - the balance between profit, sustainability, and social/political responsibility.; - the challenges of promoting diversity within organizations. and much, much more. Links To find out more about Alison, her work at NYU and Ethical Systems and her book ‘Higher Ground’ visit her website: http://www.alisontaylor.co To hear the previous epsiodes of the show featuring Alison talking about: Ethics: what is it, why does it matter? 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/alison-taylor-on-ethics-/ ESG: Environmental, Social & Governance 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/alison-taylor-on-environmental-social-governance/

What happens when a surgeon decides to become an airline pilot? You get some amazing insights into mistakes, how they happen and what we can do to mitigate them. That surgeon and now pilot is my guest Niall Downey. He’s also the author of a book called ‘Oops! Why Things Go Wrong’: Understanding and Controlling Error’ He began his career as a doctor, where he becaeme a cardiothoracic surgeon. After twelve years of medical training, Niall decided to change course and retrained as an airline pilot with Aer Lingues, initially combining aviation with medicine by working as an Accident and emergency doctor before focusing full-time on aviation. If there’s one industry that knows how to manage risk, it’s airlines. While there might be issues with things like luggage and IT failure, when it comes to safety in the skies, the airline industry has a very good track record, particularly when we consider the number of planes in the sky at any one time. Niall has made it his mission to bring the methods aliens use to mitigate risk into the medical world. In our discussion, we explore: - Niall’s career and what led him into medicine and then the airline industry: - The similarities and differences of risks and risk management in the two sectors; - How airlines and the medical profession react to mistakes; - The importance of a just culture and psychological safety supported by regulators in getting people to speak up; - How simplifying reporting processes can make it more likely people will report things; - The ‘Swiss Cheese’ model for risk management; - The realities of being a pilot and the importance of having two in the cockpit; - Niall’s thoughts on what medicine and healthcare can learn from the airline industry; - How checklists can reduce errors and much, much more. Resources To learn more about: Niall on Social Media Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/nialldowney LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/niall-downey-84abb433?originalSubdomain=uk Niall’s firm Framework Health: http://frameworkhealth.net/ Niall’s book ‘Oops! Why Things Go Wrong’: Understanding and Controlling Error’ Liffey Press (publisher): https://theliffeypress.com/oops-why-things-go-wrong-by-niall-downey.html

What happens when companies outside financial services are required to comply with regulations such as AML (Anti-Money Laundering)? As we all know from our personal experiences of banks that want to verify who we are and where money is coming from or going to, the rules are complex. That’s challenging enough if you’re a bank. But if you’re an art dealer, a real estate agent or someone else working in the field of high-value goods, that’s even harder. Particularly if the rules aren’t something you’re familiar with. My guest on this episode, Solène Clément, is a lawyer who supports clients in this space in meeting their regulatory obligations in a pragmatic way. That doesn’t mean not complying with the rules or bending them. It means bringing the gap between regulatory objectives and the practicalities of delivering them on the ground. She’s also the President of the Anti-Money Laundering Observatory, a body that seeks to get regulators to understand the practical challenges of their regulations and those subject to them to improve their knowledge and understanding of them. To find out more about Solène and her work, visit: https://clementavocats.com/ For more on the Anti-Money Laundering Observatory (OLAB): https://clementavocats.com/index.php/accueil/olab/

Authenticity is often praised, and inauthenticity is criticised. We want people to be themselves. But what happens if the society we’re in isn’t supportive or even hostile toward who we really are? Or we don’t yet know. That’s the challenge facing many LGBTQ+ people in relation to coming out. It’s the subject of a brand new book called ‘Countless Sleepless Nights’ which tells the real-life stories of people who, because of their sexuality, have had to or are dealing with the challenges of whether, how and when to come out. Not just people who live in societies where they have rights but also those living in regimes where being honest about your sexuality risks being imprisoned or killed. The book’s author is Carina Maggar, and she’s my guest on this episode. Carina is a creative copywriter who has been on the show before talking about her first book ‘How To Make Work Not Suck’. The book came about because Carina is herself gay and had her own coming out experience. I’m fascinated by this subject on a number of levels. As a straight man, I’ve never had to contend with the challenge of coming out and what that means. Yet it’s a very common experience, and I think it’s helpful to have an appreciation of what others are going through. I hope this episode can make those of us who have no experience of coming out to be more empathetic towards those who are or might go through it. Then there’s a human risk angle. If we want to get the best out of everyone — either societally or in a work context — then we need to be inclusive and not have people having to pretend they’re something they’re not. Spending your entire life being unable to be honest is debilitating, and it doesn’t bring the best out of anyone. Finally, and most importantly, it’s about shining a light on the fact that some people can’t be who they really are, and their lives are in danger as a result. That’s not right, and we need to talk about it. Resources To learn more about Carina and her first book ‘How To Make Work Not Suck’ go to her website: https://www.carinamaggar.com/ To order ‘Countless Sleepless Nights’: https://www.laurenceking.com/products/countless-sleepless-nights To hear Carina’s previous appearance on the show: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/carina-maggar-on-how-to-make-work-not-suck/

What’s the most effective way to manage cyber risk? The obvious answer is to have more sophisticated security systems. My guest on this episode thinks the answer is humans. That’s because behind every cyber attack, there is a human, and the biggest point of vulnerability within an organisation is its humans. If we can better understand humans and how they behave, we can be more effective at managing cyber risk. That’s the view of my guest on this episode, Sarah Armstrong-Smith. She’s the Chief Security Advisor at Microsoft and a leading expert in the cybersecurity space. She's also the author of a brilliant new book called Understanding the Cyber Attacker Mindset, in which she explores the human dynamics behind cyber attacks. In other words, why do the people who launch cyberattacks do so? If we can understand that, we can start to focus on the root cause of the problem. In our discussion, we explore: - The crucial role human behaviour plays in cybersecurity; - The emotional and psychological aspects that can affect an organization's digital defences. - Why organisations need a cybersecurity strategy that is people-focused and considers the motivations of cyber attackers. - The importance of recognizing the internal cultural dynamics within an organization that may inadvertently aid cyber attackers; - How cognitive diversity can reinforce cyber defences. - How societal and cultural influences contribute to the ecosystem of cybercrime. - Why victim-blaming when it comes to cyber attacks is counter-productive - How phishing campaigns that punish those who fail tests are a bad idea; - The Seven Sins of Cyber Crime; - The benefits of fostering a supportive workplace culture. And much much more. To learn more and to pre-order Sarah’s new book ‘Understand the Cyber Attacker Mindset: Build a Strategic Security Programme to Counteract Threats’: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Understand-Cyber-Attacker-Mindset-Counteract/dp/1398614289 You can find Sarah: On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-armstrong-smith On Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/SarahASmith75

What determines the price of an item or service? How can we price things so that people want to buy them but also so that we feel it’s fair? Whether (like me) you’re in business and have to sell, or you’re negotiating a salary or looking to buy or sell a house or a car, pricing matters. My guest on this episode, Melina Palmer, is the author of a new book, The Truth About Pricing: How to Apply Behavioral Economics So Customers Buy (Value Based Pricing, What Your Buyer Values). She’s also the host of the Brainy Business podcast and has been on the show before (links below). Topics In our discussion, we explore: - What makes effective pricing strategies in business and our personal lives; - How psychology influences customer purchase decisions; - The importance of storytelling and anchoring effects on price perception; - How brand perception impacts the perceived value of products; - Why a grilled cheese sandwich might be worth $214; - How heuristics and cognitive biases help and hinder us as we buy and selling; - The Challenges and complexities of pricing in the digital age; and - The relationship between price and identity and how we value items we purchase. and much, much more Links To find out more about Melina’s Brainy Business podcast and her work as a speaker, coach and trainer visit http://thebrainybusiness.com To download free sample chapters from her books at brainy business.com/human risk Find her on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/melinapalmer/ To her her previous apparenace on this show: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/melina-palmer-on-using-behavioural/ On the show, we referred to: - The book Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes Our Brains by Matt Johnson and Prince Ghuman: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/52225003 - The $214 Grileld Cheese Sandwich: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/25/most-expensive-grilled-cheese-in-the-world-from-serendipity-3.html - The Virgin Mary sandwich: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article223941560.html

What drives the choices we make, and how can we influence the choices that others make? On this episode, I’m speaking to an expert in human decision-making. Richard Shotton is a behavioural science practitioner who has written two best-selling books, ‘ The Choice Factory’ and ‘The Illusion of Choice’. Having begun his career in marketing, Richard now helps companies apply behavioural science to solve problems, particularly, as the titles of his books imply, when it comes to influencing the choices people make. During our discussion, we talk about: - Richard’s career that led him to found Astroten, his own behavioural science practice; - the wonderful story of how the company got its name - how the appliance of behavioural science can help solve business - Examples of Richard’s approach to doing research and how those can be applied in any context; - how companies can efficiently run experiments to see what works and what doesn’t - some of the critical behavioural dynamics relevant to Richard’s work, which he explores in his books. And much, much more. What I love about listening to Richard is that he’s not just sharing his deep technical knowledge in ways that are easy to digest; he’s also very good at coming up with practical ideas for how to deploy Behavioural Science to meet objectives. And he’s great fun to talk to. Links Richard and his company Astroten- https://www.astroten.co.uk/ Find him on Twitter/X - https://x.com/rshotton? and on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-shotton/ Richard’s first book ‘The Choice Factory’ - https://www.astroten.co.uk/the-choice-factory His latest book ‘The Illusion of Choice’ - https://www.harriman-house.com/illusionofchoice The ‘Astroten’ Hofling Hospital Experiment - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofling_hospital_experiment The ‘Stolen Thunder Effect’ - https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/effects-stealing-thunder-criminal-and-civil-trials An example of Zanussi’s Appliance Of Science ad campaign - https://youtu.be/DWbnxCe9xFc?si=wnaabpZrzMUA8kNc The Keat’s heuristic - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyme-as-reason_effect The McGlone & Tofighbaksh Experiment - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304422X99000030 Monadic Testing - https://conjointly.com/blog/what-is-monadic-testing/ Professor Robert Cialdini’s research on the Petrified Wood Forest in Arizona - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15534510500181459

How can we manage people who are doing creative work? On the one hand, letting someone do what they want feels incredibly risky. On the other hand, creativity requires a degree of freedom, experimentation and agency. That’s a particular problem in the creative fields, but it’s also a broader challenge. In the 21st century, the jobs people are doing are increasingly ones that require some element of creativity. Creativity is that it doesn’t always lend itself to being managed in traditional ways. Unlike setting someone a task where they slavishly need to follow instructions, creative tasks require a different form of supervision. The challenge with that is that as organisations try to mitigate the risk of creative activities, it’s very easy to end up in situations where responsibility is transferred for the creative task, but the requisite amount of control to deliver it isn’t. My guest is David Meikle. He’s a consultant to the advertising market, where he helps companies to be more effective at hiring and managing advertising agencies. To learn more about David and his books visit https://tuningup.co.uk/ Links to topics we discuss: The podcast where Jon Evans interviews Dr Ian McGilchriest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY89D1UC9Dw Iain’s website: https://channelmcgilchrist.com/ The Hamlet cigar advertisements (14:55) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJqN7RNeitw The Sainsbury’s Mog The Cat advertisement (18:15): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuRn2S7iPNU The Cadbury gorilla advertisement (18:18): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La7B8mBnTXs The Ocean Spray advertisement (19:28): https://www.thedrum.com/news/2020/10/07/ocean-spray-finally-reacts-viral-skateboarding-tiktok Orlando Wood of System One Group: https://system1group.com/team/orlando-wood Anthony Bourdain’s Kitchen Confidential: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Confidential_(book) Blair Enn’s Win Without Pitching Manifesto: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/the-manifesto/

Why do we sometimes make bad decisions in relation to money and what can we do about it? My guest, Vishal George, is a Behavioural Scientist who has recently published a book called ‘Money Mindsets: Science-Based Stories to Rewire your Money Beliefs, Goals, & Habits’. In it, he explores that he way we behave when it comes to money, comes from beliefs about it, that we’ve adopted from our families, socio-cultural environment, and significant life events. They’re almost like scripts that are handed to us. Yet, often, we don't even know who the author is of our scripts. What, asks Vishal, if we can rewrite our own money story? The idea behind his book isn’t to change what we do with our money. Rather, it offers mindsets to change how we think about money. If we become aware of why we do what we do with our money, we can make sure our behaviours with it are aligned with our priorities. Since many incidents of huamn risk are caused by money, this topic is perfect for the show. In our discussion, we explore how Vishal came to write the book and what he hopes to acheive with it. I also get some thoughts from him on how this impacts his approach to business and what he’s learend from his reasearch. And he turns the tables and asks me a question. Resources To learn more about Vishal, his compnay ‘Behavioural By Design’ visit https://www.behaviouralbydesign.com/ For more on his book ‘Money Mindsets’ https://www.behaviouralbydesign.com/money-mindsets To read about Diversifi, the global Behavioural Science practitioner network that both Human Risk and Behavioural By Design are part of, visit https://www.diversifiglobal.com/ Mount Taranki, the mountain Vishal is trying to climb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Taranaki The Save The Change program that encourages saving: https://www.asb.co.nz/banking-with-asb/save-the-change.html

What do you think of when you hear the word 'error'? It's highly likely you'll think of it negatively as a defect. The obvious way to manage defects, particularly in safety-critical industries, is to have detailed procedures, strict compliance, and zero tolerance for errors. But we know that this doesn't always work. After all, if it did, we'd have far fewer errors. My guest on this episode takes a different approach. He specializes in helping organizations, particularly safety-critical ones where the cost of getting something wrong can be death or injury, to reduce errors, improve safety and build trust. He calls this human reliability. His name is Dr. Jake Mazulewicz, and he's been a firefighter, an emergency medical technician and a military paratrooper. Nowadays, he brings all of those experiences to bear in helping organizations design processes and cultures that allow humans to manage the complexities that don't always allow themselves to be neatly codified into standard procedures. As you'll hear, he's got some fascinating ideas about designing safety models that flex to meet the situation's needs. Key Moments In The Show (mins:secs) 02:14 — Dr. Jake’s background 05:25 — Mechanistic vs. Adaptive systems 06:28 — The big problem: too many leaders treat ALL systems as Mechanistic systems 09:10 — What to say to a commercial pilot when you’re walking off their aircraft after the flight lands 10:40 — Four work guidance modes 11:00 — 1) Procedures 11:53 — 2) Guidelines like, “To find out what an organization values, follow the money." 13:00 — 3) Principles like “A jury doesn’t decide what to believe. A jury decides who to believe." 21:20 — 4) Tacit Knowledge — You can solve complex problems, but can’t explain how 26:40 — “All models are wrong, but some of them are useful.” 31:10 — How one team of electricians dramatically improved safety by using FEWER procedures 35:57 — Letter of the law vs. spirit of the law 38:20 — Have you heard of Philip K. Howard?... "Let’s pretend I haven’t.” 42:10 — We write rules when we don’t have enough trust 44:55 — Build trust by overcommunicating your intentions 45:25 — “Commander’s Intent” in military mission plans 47:55 — Listen for "Weak Signals" like hearing, “I’ll do whatever it takes…" 50:40 — Stay resilient by catching a system before it goes “exponential” 54:00 — Chris Argyris’ 17-word, 4-step recipe for creating a toxic work culture 57:10— A new Early Warning System 58:20 — Ask an expert, “What’s a 'Weak Signal' in your field, and what does it mean?” 1:04:55 — Why a non-punitive approach is so helpful and so uncommon 1:10:10 — How to get in touch with Dr. Jake — reliableorg.com Further Information To find out more about Praxtical Human Performance For Leaders visit www.reliableorg.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-mazulewicz/